Work Wonders
Back in late 2021, we decided that instead of chatting to each other about the challenges and triumphs of people management in small businesses, we should invite you to join the conversation. And the Work Wonders podcast was born! Managing people is serious business. We bring you all the latest, practical advice without the pain. The podcast is brought to you by Aster HR https://www.asterhr.com.au/ and your hosts are Angela Gauci and Susan Rochester
Work Wonders
S4 Ep11: Unpack the Power of Leadership and Management in your Workplace
Ever wondered if a simple shift in understanding could revolutionize your workplace? Well, wonder no more! Join us on this episode of the Work Wonders podcast, where hosts Angela and Susan unravel the mysteries of leadership and management, transforming your professional playbook.
In the Spotlight: Manager vs. Leader
Angela and Susan don't just talk the talk; they walk you through the roles. With some role-playing fun, they dissect the manager's reliance on expertise and one-way communication, contrasting it with a leader's knack for open dialogue and team inspiration. It's not just theory; it's a live demonstration of workplace dynamics.
Myth-Busting Leadership: A Managerial Showcase
Ready to challenge what you thought you knew? We aim our crosshairs at common misconceptions, revealing how managers and leaders bring distinct flavours to the workplace. Managers, the unsung heroes of operations, wield their expertise, while leaders craft a symphony of open communication that propels teams to excellence.
Peeling Back the Layers: Traits of Mastery
What makes a manager truly competent, and what sets an inspiring leader apart? Angela and Susan delve into the unique characteristics, highlighting the art of emotional intelligence and the transformative power of cultivating a safe work environment. It's a roadmap to honing your own leadership style.
Your Reflective Moment: Crafting a Well-Rounded Approach
Ready for a personal touch? We invite you to reflect on your own style and consider a remix. Angela and Susan suggest infusing a bit of leader or manager finesse into your approach, creating a harmony that resonates throughout your professional journey.
A Treasure Trove for Workplace Champions
This episode isn't just another chat; it's a treasure trove of practical wisdom. Whether you're a seasoned professional or a budding leader, the insights packed here are invaluable. Don't miss your chance to elevate your management and leadership game. Tune in and embark on your journey to workplace excellence!
You can find the show notes for this episode here
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Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by AstaHR, where we simplify the human side of business. I'm Angela.
Speaker 2:And I'm Susan. Let's dive into today's episode and find out what you've been wondering about.
Speaker 1:In today's episode, we're going to explore the difference between management and leadership, because there is a difference, but we believe you definitely need both, so let's explore that. This is the Work Wonders podcast. Hi Angela, hi Susan. How are we going to do Good, good? So we're going to talk about leadership and management.
Speaker 2:One of our favourite topics? Yeah, often we use them interchangeably, don't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've heard it said that they're the same thing. I don't think they are.
Speaker 2:But I think there's aspects of both in whatever you do, if you're managing or if you're in a position of power. That's probably the best way to put it. So would you have a definition of the cuff?
Speaker 1:Oh look, I think. Well, look, just my own sort of definition. I think leading or leadership is when you're inspiring people and you're taking them along with you on a journey. It's quite different, whereas I think management is more operational, when I think of it it's more the managing of something, making sure that compliance is happening or things are treading along, accountability or that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:The way I think of it is that you can't be a leader if you don't have followers. Oh yeah, that's a very good point. So we were at a conference recently and we did a little role playing. Yes, we did. That was sort of covered this, which we're going to revisit in a minute, but I think I'd like to emphasise as we go through that something I've noticed is that we tend to glorify leadership and say management is like you just got to. Anyone can do that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But only certain people are leaders. You know they're either a born leader or develop your leadership skills, that sort of thing. Whereas we need both, we do. We're both really important.
Speaker 1:And I agree with you. I would often say, just because a person has manager in their title does not mean that they are leading or they are a leader. You know you need to be able to have that skill and bring that along with your title and the duties that you have in the role of a manager, because it's so important. I agree with you.
Speaker 2:But we also have met all those people who are think great leaders, or, you know, emphasise the leadership skills but can't do the other side of things.
Speaker 1:So we're going to dive into this role play and as we go through it, you'll probably think about one, maybe two people in your history that you've worked with that maybe wasn't so nice, or maybe some that were, so that might be fun.
Speaker 2:I also think you might think of aspects of yourself, because when we did this before, I knew that, oh yes, I've done this. So some of the things that we're talking about might be negative or feel negative, but you need to face that side of yourself as well, or at least I did when we did it before.
Speaker 1:So one of us is going to be the manager or the boss, and one of us is going to be a leader and we won't tell you which to the end, to see if you can spot the difference. All right, susan, so I'll kick us off. So, in my role, imagine that I'm someone that's quite open to new ideas, I'm receptive to learning things from other people, and I'm not. I don't shy away from that, is that right? Yes, I do, apparently.
Speaker 2:I prefer to well really know it all.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I assume that I'm the expert on every topic because I'm the boss. So yeah, I know it all.
Speaker 1:Right, so you don't need anything else. For me, two-way communication is important. I like to set really clear expectations and I listen to you when you're telling me about your needs. If you're in my team, oh my goodness. That's a bit radical.
Speaker 2:So because I know everything, then I'm going to communicate just in one direction.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm going to tell. So I can't talk to you, I can't ask questions, and ask things.
Speaker 2:I'd prefer you didn't. I mean, you might show how little you know if you ask me questions.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll see For me. On my side of the fence, I want to encourage you, I want to motivate you. I want you to bring out your best. So, I'm going to encourage you to do that.
Speaker 2:Well, I want you to bring out your best too, but it has to be what I think is best, okay. So I really want to, you know, make sure that you meet my standards, and if you don't, you're going to hear about it. Oh, I can be quite critical.
Speaker 1:But that's how I keep you alive. What if there's another way to do things, I wonder. Well, I will make sure in my position that I am working to your strengths. If you're in my team, I am going to help you apply those to your job and do the best with them that you can, because you're great, and I'll build you up. Like I say, I'm going to encourage you. You're here for a reason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all too touchy feely. He's got time for that. We just got to get the job done, so I'm going to be telling you what's wrong and where you need to improve.
Speaker 1:Right, it's been a running theme with you. Well, what about? I want to not just help you and encourage you, but when things are hard and problems come about, I'm going to help you, guide you through that and I'm going to be supportive and not just blame you for doing it wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, you know again what a waste of time, because I already know everything Of course you do. That's how I got promoted to be manager, so I'm just going to micromanage. Make sure you do it all my way, oh, my way of a highway. Right, I'm looking over your shoulder. I can sense that yes, and if you haven't done it, and you haven't done it on time and you haven't done it the way I expect it to be done, yeah. Well, there'll be consequences, won't there?
Speaker 1:Oh geez, it sounds like you're my parent. Okay, Well, look, mistakes do happen. So I'm going to be a bit matter of fact about that. I'm going to learn from that. Let's reflect on it as a team and make the most of that opportunity. What can we learn and do differently?
Speaker 2:But I'm going to take accountability for where I went wrong, because you know we're all human, but don't you understand that being boss gives you the opportunity to just blame everyone else for what went wrong? Why would I take responsibility for what I've done things going wrong when there's someone further down the line that I can blame for it?
Speaker 1:Well, being part of a team to me, is about the collective. We're a we, not a me, so I'm going to focus on our team and what we can achieve. We're going to celebrate that together. We're not all yes, we're individuals, but we're not, you know, working alone. We're working together. That's my focus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think you know sometimes you just got to look after yourself, you know. So it's, you know personal goals and looking after my own agenda and my career. I know all this team stuff that people talk about, but it comes down to getting the job done and getting what I want out of it, so I'm not really that interested.
Speaker 1:But in order to get the job done, I think it's better to inspire people to tap into why they're here, to lead by example. Again, I want to provide guidance. I don't want to make it a scary place to be. I want them to want to be here, to be excited about where we're going and what we're going to achieve. Surely, that's going to bring me a good result.
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, the way I get results is demanding of them. Okay, so it's just as clear-cut as that. I expect the team to go above and beyond, because that's the standard that I set, and I'm going to hold them accountable to it. You sure are.
Speaker 1:Oh well, as you can tell, we can't hold on to that for too long. That's quite funny. I wonder if you can tell who was the manager and who was the leader in that scenario.
Speaker 2:I think that was probably pretty obvious, and I would just like to say that I wasn't speaking from my preferred way of acting, although my children might have different ideas about that. But isn't it interesting? Because as you go through that you think, oh yeah, I've done that. Oh, I haven't done that.
Speaker 1:So maybe even not overtly, but you might have had those thoughts of, oh, can't you just get the job done?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, well, we've all had that. Yeah, that's understandable.
Speaker 2:How did you get into your business? Sometimes it's because you're great at a particular thing or you've got a passion for something and you know that you can do a little better than what other people are already doing. Now that you're in business, you've discovered there's a lot more to it than just having the right skills. Especially when you've hired a team, you might have learnt the financial skills that you need because you've had to, basically, but where do you go to develop the HR and the leadership skills that you need? If you're feeling overwhelmed in managing people and all the other things that come with running a business, we can help you. We'll guide you through the skills you need to feel more confident in leadership. Go and check out the coaching page on our website or schedule a call with us at asterhrcomau.
Speaker 2:Now it's back to the episode. Some of the other interesting things about what happened at the conference. Well, if that last bit was interesting to you I guess I'm assuming that we have fun with it was that we asked the audience what traits they thought made a good leader. We did, and I think some of them we thought oh yeah, yeah, that's what we're expecting, but there are a few in there as well. That weren't what we're expecting.
Speaker 1:So shall we have a look at what came up. A few of the top things were inspirational but authentic was another one that came up which I thought was really interesting. Hard to define that one, yeah. So trustworthy, ethical, respectful, honest, those sorts of things were coming up, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And collaborative. So that's one of the things that came out in that little role play. We just did. But that they also should be compassionate. That was interesting because that was one of that had multiple votes or suggestions.
Speaker 1:Another one was courageous and wise. So there is definitely an aspect there where they want their leader to be the visionary. They want to keep them somewhere, definitely.
Speaker 2:And I know we've also got unique. Somebody said Some that I was more surprised about was intelligent.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes.
Speaker 2:Because I think sometimes we tend to measure intelligence according to our own measures.
Speaker 1:That's a good point, but it's that age old thing of. Did they, like you were saying, in the role play? Were they promoted because they've been here the longest and that's just the natural progression, or do they show the skills of a leader?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and also, is it emotional intelligence or they're smart about the job to completely different things? Another one that also surprised me, given the audience was strong. Yeah, I guess that's like the courageous one, but that answer indicated that someone wanted a strong leader.
Speaker 1:Yeah, looking for security, I guess. So I'm happy to go along and play my part in the team, but I'm looking for a leader that can shelter us when something goes wrong or take charge and reassure us, and those sorts of things I'm assuming you know.
Speaker 2:This reminds me of something from Harrison assessments, because there's a trait that we measure that's called once capable leader, and that's a really useful trait if you know what that person thinks of as a capable leader. Ah yes, so for different people leadership is different things right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So that person who wants someone strong, they're going to value certain things. If someone who wants a leader who's compassionate, they're going to have different, a different set of core values, their personal values. So when we're doing those Harrison profiles, then it makes it a lot easier for us to go well. This person will match well with this leader because we know they possess those traits that the person in question values. So you're building a much better leader follower relationship.
Speaker 1:So, look, there's obviously a lot of negative things that we found in that role play on the manager side of things, but there are parts to it that are definitely necessary.
Speaker 2:Let's unpack that a little bit so you're talking about holding people accountable, having standards? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And being the one in charge in terms of I'm taking that position of the team authority and I'm here driving us all forward, being accountable for your own actions, but, I guess, understanding that these are the objectives we need to meet as a team. And are we going to get there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think most people need that.
Speaker 1:There's always a lot of uncertainty, in workplaces, at the moment especially, but it helps if people know some sort of general direction and what it's going to take to achieve that, I guess I guess on the flip side I mean we've seen there from those from the conference and those questions or the comments that came out of what people are looking for there's probably a lot more on the leader side that people are looking for and that might have been indicative of the audience we were with you know the temperature of workplaces at the moment.
Speaker 1:But you know, if we were too far on the leadership side and just all those lovey-dovey things in the role play, I guess that would be negative too. It needs to have the balance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely the yin and the yang. And actually one of our recent episodes we talked about socio-social safety and I was just reflecting on how management contributes to that as well, so that whole aspect of people knowing where they stand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, because there's a lot more than just getting the job done. It's about keeping people physically and mentally, emotionally, I guess sort of safe in the workplace as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly which is what you're talking about there, and you need both leadership.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, they're all those nice characteristics of a good leader that we talked about, but you also need to have clarity.
Speaker 1:And we also I think it was in our interview with Selina. We talked about emotional intelligence quite a lot, so that might be an episode worth going back and having a listen to if that's piqued your interest as we're talking here. Yeah, excellent. So we hope today's discussion has given you a chance to reflect on your own style and what elements of management and leadership you bring into the workplace.
Speaker 2:So are there more leader traits you'll begin to use, or perhaps you need to remember to bring more of your manager traits to your team.
Speaker 1:And we'll be sure to put those thoughts that we've discussed today in the show notes. Thanks for listening to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR. Hit the subscribe button now to never miss an episode, and if you'd like to continue the conversation with us, you can find us over at AstaHRcomau. See you in the next episode.
