Work Wonders
Back in late 2021, we decided that instead of chatting to each other about the challenges and triumphs of people management in small businesses, we should invite you to join the conversation. And the Work Wonders podcast was born! Managing people is serious business. We bring you all the latest, practical advice without the pain. The podcast is brought to you by Aster HR https://www.asterhr.com.au/ and your hosts are Angela Gauci and Susan Rochester
Work Wonders
S5 Ep 4: Volunteers are part of the team too
In this episode we discuss and compare the differences (and similarities) between paid employees and volunteers.
We discover there is a lot the same, especially in the areas like:
- Recruitment & Iinduction
- Accountability/performance
- Work Health & Safety (including psychosocial safety)
By treating volunteers with the same level of professionalism and support as employees, organisations can cultivate a culture of inclusivity, collaboration, and mutual respect.
You can find the show notes for this episode here
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Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR, where we simplify the human side of business.
Speaker 2:I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's episode and find out what you've been wondering about. In today's episode, we're talking all about volunteers. What counts as a volunteer? How do we treat volunteers? What are the differences between volunteers and employees? We know a lot of organisations who are in our circles who are using volunteers, so what does that mean for the organisation and how you should treat them? Let's dive in. This is the Work Wonders podcast.
Speaker 1:Hi Susan, Hi Angela, so we're talking about volunteers, so right now our listeners might be going. What are they doing? Because they're not employees.
Speaker 2:No, and this is a topic, though, that we've been thinking about for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you and I each volunteer. We are yeah, with our local chambers of commerce yeah, and we're connected to other volunteers yeah.
Speaker 1:You're also on a board, aren't you Susan?
Speaker 2:Exactly so. If you're doing anything where you're giving up your time for free you're not getting paid for it then obviously you're volunteering. And I think what really brought this to mind for me recently is the statistics have been coming out about the shortages of volunteers. So apparently the baby boomers for all their faults and I say that as a baby boomer they do give up a lot of time to volunteering whereas the younger generations don't now.
Speaker 2:So part of that is cost of living. You might be working two jobs to pay your mortgage. There's a lot of reasons why younger people don't volunteer. They're raising children and all the rest of it, but what that's resulting in is a generation of volunteers that are, let's face it, reaching a point where they may not be able to do the things that they were doing before, especially if we're talking about jobs in RFS, for example, ses, you know so, those physically demanding jobs.
Speaker 1:So these are the sorts of organisations that we're talking about. The RFS is a great example, SES, Surf, Life Saving. They're all really obviously relying upon volunteers to get their work done. But there are other examples, like you said, being on a board or in our local chambers or other groups community groups they're all volunteer. But other organisations that we've worked with and we know of, like not-for-profit charity organisations, yes, they might employ people, but they more often have a large group of volunteers as well that they also rely on to get their work done and to make the things happen that they need for their clients.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's a really important part of their organisation, so it might be someone who works once a week in the op shop or gives out meals or delivers food packages. There's a whole raft of things that volunteers do in our society and we wanted to, today, talk about the organisations and how they can manage them better, because I guess the key point to keep in mind, as I've just indicated, is that once you have your volunteers on board, you want to hang on to them because they're precious right.
Speaker 1:So there's a big difference there. Let's point out the differences We've got volunteers and employees. Obviously, the big difference is we're not paying them when they're a volunteer. So if you're not paying them, there's no carrot there to sort of say please stay, because then I'll keep paying you. It's a big difference, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I mean we're not saying that everyone works just for the money. We hope not, but that's correct. You know, there's no golden chain keeping them.
Speaker 1:Right, they could just tomorrow wake up and go. I'm sorry I'm not available anymore, or no? I don't want to do that anymore, or I can't like you say. So, yeah, really critical to keep hold of them. I guess there's some other really obvious things, somewhat obvious things. You know they're not entitled to superannuation then, of course, because they're not being paid. There's no employment contract like we're alluding to. There's no contract that you will pay them if they do ABC. There's no contract there. It's often informal in ways, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess the closest that you might come to for some documentation might just be a roster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or your policies and procedures might still apply to that.
Speaker 2:True, but you're very much relying on the goodwill of the volunteer to turn up when they say they will and do what you expect.
Speaker 1:And look, when it comes to workers' compensation, certainly in our state, in New South Wales, some sorts of organisations like we talked about RFS, ses, those sorts of things they are covered by workers' comp if you're a volunteer. But other organisations, like the example we spoke about with a not-for-profit that has volunteers in their op shop, for example they might not necessarily be covered under workers' comp. So make sure you understand the difference there as well.
Speaker 2:So there are quite a few differences.
Speaker 1:But I guess why we're here is because there's a lot of similarities as well. Exactly, isn't there?
Speaker 2:But you're working in a completely different context when you're talking about volunteers.
Speaker 1:But if you need them for your organisation, obviously you need them for a very good reason, just like you do need employees to get tasks done, to provide service to clients, that sort of thing. There's obviously still a process to recruit or to find these people. It might not be exactly the same way you do for an employee, but what do you think there? How would you go and find a volunteer?
Speaker 2:I was afraid you were going to ask me that. I've just told you that there's a nationwide shortage of volunteers.
Speaker 1:How about this? How did you get sourced for your board role? I was asked Okay, yes, a personal connection.
Speaker 2:So part of it's, yeah, identifying people who might be a good fit, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I would say that with a lot of organisations it's a self-identification process right. So someone's going to put their hand up and say, yeah, I'll do that, or I'd like to help out. What can I do? I guess that's one major difference with employees. You're probably not likely to go. Oh well, after you've been through our screening process well, having said that, there are screening processes, because you might have things like working with children, check and police check and things like that, of course, and we would recommend that you do those but not so.
Speaker 1:You have to have all these criteria in terms of selection criteria, met.
Speaker 2:That's what I meant. Yeah, yeah okay.
Speaker 1:So the volunteer is more sort of as it sounds. They volunteer that they want to help, they nominate themselves that yes, I want to do that because I really align to that purpose, or I want to help out that charity, or I want to participate in a board or whatever it is. People do apply for a job and that's sort of nominating themselves as well, but it's much more purpose-driven, is what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:I would think so.
Speaker 1:But there'd still be an induction process, wouldn't there? I?
Speaker 2:would hope so. So I'm thinking, when you're bringing a volunteer or an employee on board, there's a lot of the same information that you'd be sharing, yeah, yeah the things that you're not collecting or sharing or whatever would be around payroll, obviously, but apart from that, they'd be subject to the same policies and procedures. Yes, the same expectations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'd encourage you to treat them in that respect, treat them very similarly.
Speaker 2:Likewise with training. I'm thinking that there's probably volunteer roles where in some ways there's extra or different training that you'd be giving to your volunteers because, say, you're in an organisation where you're offering social services, so you could assume that when you bring in someone a paid employee into that sort of role, that they've got some sort of training in that field. Yeah, you can't necessarily in that field. Yeah, you can't necessarily assume that with your volunteers. So there might be certain subtleties around your service delivery that need to be quite clearly set out for volunteers.
Speaker 1:It does make you wonder and this might be better in the works but it does beg the question of why would we do a volunteer and not an employee? Then what's the purpose behind having a volunteer as opposed to just hiring staff?
Speaker 2:Well, you know as well as I do that it comes down to the almighty dollar. Yes, yeah. The sort of organisations that we're talking about that use volunteers do that because they can't afford to hire staff.
Speaker 1:If you're enjoying today's content and you know of someone else who might benefit from it as well, why not tell them about our podcast? Simply mention the name Work Wonders Podcast and let them know. Work Health and Safety is another one that is coming to my mind that they would have to be covered under, like you say, policies and procedures. A volunteer would still have the same rights to a safe workplace, even though they're not being paid for it.
Speaker 2:They might need training in manual handling and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the same sort of procedures around risk and identifying hazards and incidents if they occur and things like that. Yeah, they need to be aware of emergency exits and first aid kits and all those sorts of things as well, just like an employee would.
Speaker 2:So I guess we've pretty much covered bringing them on board and that sort of induction, orientation phase. Are you going to put a volunteer on probation? I'm thinking probably not.
Speaker 1:No, I wouldn't. Could you imagine that. Thanks so much for coming to help. We'll just see how you go. Yeah, that wouldn't. Could you imagine that? Thanks so much for coming to help. Well, we'll just see how you go. Yeah that's right. Look, you may still internally you might still assess that.
Speaker 2:That's a conversation you're having with yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but in terms of that question, look, it's still important to keep a person accountable. We would certainly encourage you to think about what the person's doing and what outcomes they're producing for you. And, look, if you've had that conversation of thanks so much, we'd love you to come in every week and work five hours in the op shop or whatever it is holding them accountable to making those outcomes or whatever you're looking for, yeah, and the whole how we do things around here type thing.
Speaker 2:I think this is a bit of the piece of the puzzle where a lot of organisations can really struggle with that accountability, because you're dealing with people who, through their own generosity, are giving you their time and it's very easy to let little things slip by and just accept things because you're not paying that person. You need their hands, you know the effort that they're putting in, so I can see there'd be a temptation sometimes to just go oh well, he's a bit whatever or she's a bit whatever, or doing this not quite how we want it done but we'll just let it go.
Speaker 1:Just let it go because they're helping us out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that will be very easy to do how we want it done, but we'll just let it go. Let it go because they're helping us out.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah so that will be very easy to do. However, I and I think, angela- also would like to encourage people managing volunteers to actually draw a line and make it clear when something's not quite right and do something about it, just as you would with employees and for the same reason as you would with an employee, so that you don't have everyone else thinking what?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's a really it's a fine line, isn't it? You know it's almost an awkward place. It's very oh, it'd be very awkward and balancing, you know, because if it was an employee we'd be saying to you we'll make sure you performance manage them.
Speaker 1:If they're not achieving ab, b and C and you don't want to go so heavy handed with a volunteer. But I agree with you it's so necessary to be on top of what they're doing for you and treat them with the mentality of are they producing what we need? Are they doing things the way we do things or according to our values?
Speaker 2:and so on.
Speaker 1:Measuring them with the same stick, so to speak, because it's just so important, not just for them and for the outcomes that they're producing and your clients, but also for the rest of your workforce, including the employees. We've got an example of a not-for-profit organisation we've been speaking to recently who they do have to draw that boundary for volunteers so that they know very clearly what they are asked to do and what they're not asked to do. And that might not be an easy conversation to have Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but it's a necessary one, because if they stepped into a place where they were now doing what an employee would do but they shouldn't be or they're taking over the job of someone else or they're just a bully and they're making it hard for everybody else you might lose some really great employees or, even worse, a whole bunch of volunteers, because of one person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it is worth doing, even though it would be really awkward it doesn't have to be formal because it's just having that relationship with the person and you know as we're always saying communication, communication, communication. Yes.
Speaker 2:And I think we'd also both agree early. You don't let something run on for weeks or months before you do something about it.
Speaker 1:Because you'd hate to get into the position where you might come to someone and go. How do I get rid of a volunteer? But we've heard it said before, haven't we? Because that is a really awkward place. So if you're doing these things in prevention of that, hopefully it will never come to that for you, because it's a really awkward place to say we no longer need your lovely spirit and your helpful nature. Please go and volunteer somewhere else. You know that would be a really hard thing to navigate.
Speaker 2:And you also don't want to put people offside by having other people around them who make them feel uncomfortable because you haven't done something about it as a manager. Yeah, so I think there are certain times, as managers, where we just have to step up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I've noticed with volunteers because I've had contact with several different organisations that use volunteers is that you can get some people who are so passionate that they're, I guess, self-sacrificing and doing too much.
Speaker 2:You know they might be overworking or even to the point of burning themselves out because they're trying to do things everywhere. They might be volunteering in multiple organisations and have a lot of other things going on in their lives. There might even be some mental health issues. So these are all things that you need to be aware of and keeping an eye on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like overworking or doing it too much. If that was an employee, it's a lot more strict. We could say to you please don't let them work more than 10 hours a day or 12 hours a day whatever it is, and it's a lot more definitive. We would encourage you to do the same with your volunteers. Don't let them do that.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Try and encourage them to work their hour or work their schedule as according to what you need, but not allowing that sort of overwork to happen, because then you'd creep into, like you would, employees the work health and safety aspect, psychosocial safety hazards and things like that. So you want to take care of them just like you would an employee. It's no different. We shouldn't be abusing their willingness to.
Speaker 2:Definitely not.
Speaker 1:But it does bring up psychosocial safety. Has it, though, with the new legislation that came into play, Just as important for a volunteer as well, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, you're responsible for looking after them.
Speaker 1:Yep. So exactly the same as what we've talked about in a previous episode that you'd be looking after your employees in that way to provide a safe and healthy and psychologically safe you know, not exposing them to things that might cause them trauma, for example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you're not sure what we're talking about, jump back to an old episode. That's season four, episode 10. Season four, episode 10. So I guess what we're saying, Susan, if we wrap this all up into one sort of thought, is that volunteers have a lot of similarities to employees and we would be encouraging you to think about treating them with the same as you would an employee in a lot of ways. So including them in your meetings, including them with your communications and training and all those practices we've talked about in your meetings including them with your communications and training, and you know all those practices we've talked about, but there are some fine differences and fine lines to navigate.
Speaker 1:So I wonder if your business uses volunteers. Maybe you do. Maybe this episode's been helpful. Please let us know. We always love to know what's hit home for you with our episode.
Speaker 2:Maybe you are a volunteer yourself and you've got your own story to tell us.
Speaker 1:We'd love to know. Thanks for listening to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR. Hit the subscribe button now to never miss an episode, and if you'd like to continue the conversation with us, you can find us over at astahrcomau. See you in the next episode.
