Work Wonders
Back in late 2021, we decided that instead of chatting to each other about the challenges and triumphs of people management in small businesses, we should invite you to join the conversation. And the Work Wonders podcast was born! Managing people is serious business. We bring you all the latest, practical advice without the pain. The podcast is brought to you by Aster HR https://www.asterhr.com.au/ and your hosts are Angela Gauci and Susan Rochester
Work Wonders
S5 Ep 5: Special Guest - Sheila Cabacungan
In this episode we spoke with Sheila Cabacungan, founder of The Wealth Forum and Co-Founder of Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn.
We plan a lot of things in business, we plan our finances, our goals, even our holidays…but as a business owner, have you set a plan for the end of your business or the end point for yourself in your business?
This was such a great conversation that gave some many nuggets of gold as the conversation unfolded, that even our guest walked away with some light bulb moments.
Listen in as Sheila takes us through the 8 steps to get a business that doesn’t rely on you.
To find out more about Sheila here's her links:
The Wealth Forum Facebook page
The Wealth Forum LinkedIn page
The Wealth Forum website
Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn website
Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn Facebook page
Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn LinkedIn page
You can find the show notes for this episode here
Would you like to submit a question to the show? Let us know on our website or via LinkedIn.
Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR, where we simplify the human side of business.
Speaker 2:I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's episode and find out what you've been wondering about.
Speaker 1:Today it's interview time and we were pleased to welcome to the studio today Sheila Kabakungen. She's a financial planner and her business is the Wealth Forum. She's also a business mentor and she's co-founded Mentor to Mentor Connect and Learn. We had a great conversation in today's interview. We talked about planning ahead for your business, including even the exit strategy that might suit you when the time comes, and Sheila took us through the eight steps to get your business to be running smoothly without you in it. So let's get started. This is the Work Wonders podcast. Hi, susan.
Speaker 2:Hello Angela.
Speaker 1:We're back in the studio for another guest interview today, and today we have Sheila. Hello, hi there, sheila. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Great to have you along. Thank you so, sheila. We usually start off these interviews by asking people how did they get to where they are today?
Speaker 3:What's your story? What's my story? I run a couple of businesses and I kind of found myself 18 years in business now. Financial planning is pretty much what the profession looks like, and I did start out as a financial planner working for some large organisations, but I always knew in the back of my head that I would end up out on my own, and this year would mark the 14th year.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:I'll actually be a self-employed, self-licensed financial planner. I work out at Sydney's West looking after, basically, clients who are small business owners. That's the passion and that really has a lot to do with how I was brought up the good, the bad and the ugly of that particular upbringing, where I really really wanted to understand how money worked in the context of a small family business. So we did everything. We had high, highs and low, lows and all sorts of other stuff in the context of a small family business. So we did everything. We had high, highs and low, lows and all sorts of other stuff in the middle.
Speaker 3:And I guess what I'm seeing now as a business owner is that story really hasn't changed much and it probably hasn't changed for centuries. It's just the circumstances and the times that we find ourselves in and that one particular business and that profession has spawned into a couple of other things that I've done largely through the COVID years. So I definitely started doing a lot more business advisory and mentoring and also partnering with one of my absolute mentors who I would basically would go and watch open an envelope we started a mentoring business together, mentor to Mentor, connect and Learns.
Speaker 3:Just in the last, just coming up to our first year. It complements what I'm doing with financial planning, complements with what I'm doing in the business advisory and mentoring space with New South Wales Business Connect. So, even though on the surface when I talked about what I do and how I do things, it looks like a big three ring circus, but, trust me, there's me in the middle of all that, basically living into what it is that I'm passionate about and what I want to do and what I want to leave behind when I'm no longer on this earth.
Speaker 2:It sounds like sorry. What you're doing is all really connected to your purpose. Yeah, and that gives you the energy for it all.
Speaker 3:Well, absolutely, because I think it's got to come from somewhere deeper than just the money, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think we came about with this discussion around. Well, how do you actually get a business that doesn't necessarily have to work with you in it? That's it, and that's the precursor to making sure that you can leave something behind at the end of the day, whether that's you sell a business or you just be able to move and go and do something else that feeds your passion and your soul. That's great.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you, Sheila, is there one thing that seems to be a recurring message that you're giving to your clients around the financial stability for their businesses?
Speaker 3:I think the key to all stability is making sure that your business can actually work, whether you're in it or not, because we're the founders, we have all the hustle, we have all the passion, we have all the skill. A lot of the time we think we can control it all and that we can't do things like delegate or we don't want to lose the control. And that's the to and that's the reason why we got into business right To be able to run our own shows, control our own time, control every aspect in a world that's really uncontrollable. And I think what COVID did was basically disrupt everything that we ever thought we knew about ourselves and our business. And what I'm finding is a recurring theme is people are doing that, searching now to say, well, all right, this is where I actually am, where is it that I actually want to be, and how do I get there? And is what I'm doing right now even going to get me there? And it's thrown open a whole lot of other stuff.
Speaker 3:And one of the themes I'm seeing from the financial aspects of running a business is first off, you've got to make sure that the machine that exists right now to run the business, the actual business itself is going that there's enough cash flow coming through and cash flow going out, but beyond that, it's what's this thing going to be for? Because ultimately, I've got a hundred years. Every one of us has probably only got a hundred years, and if I'm halfway through that, then I need to make some decisions about what's going to happen with me. What do I want in the near future and how am I going to get what I've got to that point where I can actually realise it Interesting, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I know these are big questions, but when it comes down to the business owner, it's how do you actually get a business that can?
Speaker 2:function whether you are there running it or not. Do you enjoy listening to our interview episodes? As you can tell, angela and I really enjoy making them, so we're always on the lookout for interesting people we can interview. If you or someone you know would make a great guest for us, please get in touch. You can contact us through our website at astrohrcomau, or via LinkedIn. We're always happy to have a chat about what we might be able to discuss. That can both inform our listeners and help you to reach a wider audience. Now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 1:And that's an interesting thought, because I hear so often from small business owners that they're the one doing the doing, wearing all the hats. You know, when you're a solopreneur, it's absolutely the case, and as you start to grow, it can be really hard to let go of those hats, can't you? But often it's not achievable for someone to have expertise in all those areas. So, yeah, it's interesting to hear you say, but it's about learning to let go of that control or finding ways for the business to work without you, because if you're the one doing everything, it does rely solely on you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or you have all of that, all of the knowledge is sitting in your head, all the dreams, the visions, the plans and everything else are all in your head and until you actually start to speak and share it. So that's the first thing I mean. If I look at the eight things that business owners can actually do to get a business that doesn't rely on them, that's number one Actually plan and set goals. But yes, plan and set goals, but actually put them down on something so that if you keep by bus, someone else knows what's going on and, like you know, you can have all those cliches and all those memes that say, if you don't plan, you fail, and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3:You don't have to plan to succeed. You can get by on sheer luck and hard work. But at some point in time you're going to want a different result, even if the results are failure. Then you just pick up and go again, but most often it's going to be a success or a different version of a success. That's the first one plan. The other one is and I'm guilty of this too identifying and actually writing down systems and procedures, or creating systems and procedures.
Speaker 3:And I know you two are massive on that, because those human relationships that we have to have when we are employing someone or even contracting someone or using a supplier, they're all based on two people in a relationship actually understanding what's expected, being able to hold each other to account, right the rules, to fight and play fair. You guys are the referees for a lot of that within employment. But the communication has to be embedded in some sort of living document or a living knowledge of what's expected and what happens when you don't meet those expectations and all that sort of stuff. Documenting is the other one. So if it's like planning and then getting the systems and processes but then actually putting them down in writing is the third one, and then getting the people to actually believe your vision and work for you.
Speaker 2:We had this discussion earlier, didn't we, about how?
Speaker 3:do we actually get people to buy into your business beyond the paycheck?
Speaker 1:So yeah, have you ever heard it said Susan, you know why did you apply for this job? And you've heard someone say oh, because I needed one.
Speaker 2:Or it's close to home, or I wanted part-time, or I wanted remote work. Yes, making it all about what they want.
Speaker 1:Fairly uninspiring, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But then maybe they haven't met the employer who's inspired them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, yeah, I love that, or even before that, like the employee who actually has an expectation of what that person needs to do for the time and the money that they're being paid for. Such an interesting thing to think about, isn't it Because a lot of us will have such an innate thing of oh, recruitment is, I need someone with A, B and C qualifications or X amount of experience and, oh well, if they turn up and do the job, they're doing the job, aren't they?
Speaker 1:Well, no, maybe not. So it's a really interesting thing to flip that on its head and question are they really interested in the purpose of what we're doing, and are they here for the right reasons, and are they giving me the outputs that I'm essentially buying by?
Speaker 3:paying them. Oh wow, that's cool. That's the first time I've heard it put that way, Because I made a massive mistake in recruitment very early on, when I was starting out in financial planning and did my first hire where I genuinely believed the hire, I had had the right skill set and completely bought into what I was trying to create from my vision point of view. But you know where I fell down? I didn't know what I wanted them to do and I had no way of being able to relinquish the trust and control issues I had to be able to give them enough to do so they left because they were bored, because I wouldn't even trust them with scanning and photocopying at one point. You know what I mean. So that's been a constant thing for me is to have, like, I'm not the best scanner and photocopier, and even if I am, should I be doing that?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, and it's funny like I chuckled at that, but really you're not alone there.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's a common thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've all done it.
Speaker 3:Oh gosh and I mean that's the thing too that this particular employee, who I'm still friends with, goes. I would have done anything you wanted me to do, because I totally believed in what you were doing, but you just honestly didn't have anything for me to do. So I got your vision. Now we have to help you get those systems, processes, procedures in place so someone can actually act out or implement that for you.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:So then you can go off and do you know your rock star Taylor Swift, beyonce thing, because that's what you you know that's Love it.
Speaker 1:You can bring that in, yeah.
Speaker 3:But someone needs to manage your calendar and someone needs to Exactly so that's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm taking all of that on and setting those expectations, yeah, and holding people accountable as.
Speaker 3:We completely know what we're doing. We're completely, you know, we're great at what we do and there's no way that we would be able to be able to demonstrate that we are having a bad day or there's no, all that sort of stuff Like. I find that a real challenge too, that people expect you, particularly in social land, social media or.
Speaker 3:LinkedIn in particular, that you, you know you have to show your best side and I guess that's from a business owner's point of view that has to be a reason why businesses feel like they can't grow, because it's just all in the founder to be all of the things and to represent the business and the brand so much.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm a big believer that small, medium, big, we all essentially do the same thing in terms of framework of business. If you sort of wanted to pull it apart and go well, everyone does marketing, everyone does finance, everyone does a bit of HR, depending how big your business is. You know it's just to what scale. Yeah, but really, and how can we be expected to do it all until you start to, like you say, think about moving that on and passing it on to different people or outsourcing it, whatever it may be?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's the whole building of the trust and accountability in what you know, you know right, and what you don't know, you don't know.
Speaker 2:That's right, because you can't be the best at everything.
Speaker 3:And then it's trusting when you put yourself out there and say, okay, I need to work with a digital marketing specialist or a human resources specialist or a whole bunch of specialists, is that they're not going to? This is what I hear from my business owners a lot. How do I make sure that I actually don't blow my money on something?
Speaker 3:Because, there's not a lot of it. So they're coming from a scarcity mentality already because they've done a couple of tough years or made some bad calls in the past, and that really does play around with the ability to then go. Well, I could outsource it or I could just do it myself and just fumble along, and if it's my stuff up, it's my stuff up, but I haven't thrown money at it as well. So I haven't lost money as well, and it limits, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm in that boat right now too. I'm about to potentially hire a virtual assistant, but it's taken me three years to get to the point where I can actually say here's what I need them to do in order for me to do, you know, that dream of a business that's largely automated on the financial planning side so I can go off and do other things.
Speaker 2:I think you have to ask yourself what's it costing you to be doing that work that you know you can now get someone else to do, and then it's knowing what value you bring to your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think everybody has a reason why they started business. Maybe it's a passion, a profession, a skill, a product that they've got an idea of that they can do better than anybody else, or whatever it is. If you know what it is that you bring to your business, is it that you are a really great masseur and you need to do that part of the business but you need someone to do the admin side because that's not your strength? Or whatever it is. I think leaning into what's the best part that you can bring to the business and letting go of the stuff that you perhaps are not so great at.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what I've done lately is every time I go and do something that I know in my gut and in my head I'm going. Oh, I can't do this.
Speaker 2:I actually just write it down that goes into the job description for the new person.
Speaker 3:That's your big tip then, if you're wanting to get out of the business to a certain extent, you've got to start documenting the stuff that you genuinely don't like to do and the stuff that you genuinely shouldn't be doing, because you know that it's just putting off something else. Exactly, invoicing is a big one that I hear from my clients. Like I'll always have a look at their financials and what's going on in their money and they'll say to me, oh, there's not enough of it. And then I'll look at unpack what they've been doing. Yes, I'll go all right, so where's you? Did all these jobs and like it took you three weeks to get in front of me because you were so busy.
Speaker 1:So where's the invoices?
Speaker 3:Oh that, well, that might be why. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really common one. I was literally at dinner with some our mentoring group actually and three people in that same room said that they had not invoiced for at least two weeks and I was like geez hand up.
Speaker 1:I haven't done that because you did the doing and then you go oh, that's right, yeah, give me a minute, and how long does it take to send an invoice?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sometimes I think we over-engineer it.
Speaker 2:You spend more time thinking about doing it than just doing it.
Speaker 3:And like you think about it, right, if you actually buy something from any online store, you've paid for that thing before it's even come out, exactly Right, and you just play catch up. Or you just have to address the customer service issues if it doesn't land on your step, but you've paid for it because you've already committed to the transaction of that particular good or service.
Speaker 2:So why aren't we doing that in business? I think there's probably a number of reasons.
Speaker 3:Because I think a lot of small business, especially the ones in our circle, ladies, who would have that same issue, and I wonder if the question should be well, how are we getting the money in beyond doing the best job possible at the time that we're doing the job, or providing the service, providing the product? What's the strategy there?
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 3:strategy to get the money in. Every time I think about that. That 90s quote.
Speaker 2:Linda Evangelista, those supermodels that said that I don't get out of bed for $10,000 a year, I go. Well, there's a woman who knows. There's a woman who knows.
Speaker 1:There's a woman who oh a day.
Speaker 3:It's not even a year. Oh my gosh $10,000 a day, right she goes. She knew her worth. We're asking for a couple of hundred dollars for an invoice fulfilled or a product, or up to thousands of dollars. Is it coming down to worth or being able to demonstrate worth?
Speaker 2:Not necessarily to the customer, but to ourselves.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh ladies.
Speaker 2:I Sorry to the customer, no to ourselves. Oh my gosh, ladies, I'm a goose bumpy. How did you get into your business? Sometimes it's because you're great at a particular thing or you've got a passion for something and you know that you can do it a little better than what other people are already doing. Now that you're in business, you've discovered there's a lot more to it than just having the right skills, especially when you've hired a team. You might have learnt the financial skills that you need because you had to, basically, but where do you go to develop the HR and the leadership skills that you need? If you're feeling overwhelmed in managing people and all the other things that come with running a business, we can help you. We'll guide you through the skills you need to feel more confident in leadership. Go and check out the coaching page on our website or schedule a call with us at astorhrcomau. Now it's back to the episode.
Speaker 3:If you think about it in the context of how do I actually get myself out of the business and have it running without me, there's a little bit of it. I can't, I don't want to let go, because so much of me is actually my self-worth is the business and I am a whatever you are and that is who I am. It's part of my identity.
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's why I always believe that you should have. Once you start a business, you need to have your exit strategy.
Speaker 3:Don't you reckon? Every single business owner has heard that in one form or another and like? The one question we all ask ourselves is I'm never going to leave.
Speaker 2:Well, that's ages away.
Speaker 3:That's years, decades away, that's ages away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or I've no idea, but isn't that really what you should be working towards the whole time? Will you want to be finishing at the best possible position you want to be in? You know whether it be five years, 10 years, 20 years?
Speaker 1:And does it come down to a financial planning aspect as well, sheila? I mean, if you're a business owner, do you have superannuation, or is your business going to be your retirement plan, and what is that plan? I wonder how many business owners have asked their question themselves of that.
Speaker 3:I don't think they ask it. One of the common threads I see with most people's business journey and I'm nosy by nature- I always love to come from curiosity or gossip.
Speaker 3:I will sit there and listen to people's business stories and how they started and all that sort of stuff and get completely inspired and enthralled by it all. But it comes to that certain point when you start to actually push into well, what's next? What's next? What's next? Love the past stuff because it tells me how you got here and what makes you tick. But you now want a different result or you want validation of more of the same right. There's only two reasons why you tell your story you want to be seen, you want to be heard, you want to be accepted, right? Or you want to be challenged and pushed into a different direction. So you want someone to come along and help you change your story. But what I'm finding is that most people don't have an end in mind, and it was the one thing to say, yes, I want to sell this business, or I don't want to sell this business, but most genuinely don't know how the whole thing's going to end, right?
Speaker 3:We all love taking ourselves down and taking everyone else down, but it's the acknowledgement of wow, you've done not too badly and you haven't even had a plan or a strategy, or you just got here by luck or good fortune or something innate in who you are that has had people following you and just believing in what you're doing and just giving you money for what you do.
Speaker 1:It's such an interesting thought really because, as the business owner, we started with all the great intentions and off it goes and if you're lucky, your business might snowball into something bigger but really asking yourself the question of what's the end goal for you personally. The business might continue, you might just sell it or whatever it may be. But yeah, that's a really interesting thought and it's similar in the way of succession planning, when you're thinking about a team as well and resourcing the business to keep continuing. It's sort of doing that with yourself as the resource. How is the business going to continue without you all?
Speaker 3:Because the business has to continue, doesn't it? And it has to grow in some form. Not every business has to scale and grow, and you know, take on, become multi-employee empires and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3:But there has to be some sort of growth, because the system that we work in requires growth. It requires us to at least keep going, keep moving forward, but it also doesn't require us to end, so there is no actual end point. To be honest with you in terms of the last five years, with my clients who've walked away from business either positively or negatively, has not been a conscious decision to sell or a conscious decision to end.
Speaker 3:It's been taken away from them. The choice is gone because either circumstances, trade the COVID stuff has killed off a lot of businesses Health is another major one, and believe it or not. Breakdowns in major relationships take a business out. So that's what I'm finding that there was no planning involved in a takedown. A lot of the time I'm dealing with one client out of maybe the last 12 where a business has had to shut, only one is a viable sale on the market ready to go A choice to sell the business rather than to shut it down and walk away.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Wow Well it's you know, some of it has been okay, we were just lucky enough, or we don't have to work anymore, or something's taken them out, and it's not necessarily a failure on their part, but one sale. So if that's the myth that we all follow, that our business is a superannuation, even that one sale isn't going to be enough for them to live on.
Speaker 2:They've had to consciously build wells outside to be able to do it, and none of us can predict what the market's going to do.
Speaker 3:Well, I think one of the things that we can probably look at in terms of business owners and making this whole journey of succession and growth a little bit easier is to actually see that, because businesses have to keep going, it's how do we keep going? And again, using COVID, the great disruptor, we all had to look at the way that we were running our businesses and at least adapt. Our use of technology just amplified. We need those positive forces of innovation coming through. The last three years have taught me that I have to look at new ways of doing the same thing.
Speaker 2:We have to remember that innovation is that as well as doing something completely different. So you know, sometimes I think we believe that you know, innovation is that huge breakthrough, but not necessarily it can be incremental, yeah.
Speaker 3:But the thing is, every business owner needs a tribe around them and that's a tribe of people who they can actually go to to say I'm having a bad day or I'm having an awesome success story, and you're either my suppliers, you're my customers. That's tribe. But then there's the advisory board, your inner circle, that tribal council, and my tribal council has basically grown as I've grown the business and you guys would know who would make up a great tribal council. It's your money team, it's your people team, it's your tools and resources team, right and across all of that, making sure that they actually know what you're about and how you're supporting them.
Speaker 3:They're supporting you that's the only way to get the business growing beyond you. Even if it's just you in the business, I know I can go to you guys when I take on this v and make sure that, even if they're an overseas resource, how do I actually start to make sure that I'm not doing the wrong thing?
Speaker 3:by ah, here, yeah, yeah, I agree, and even all of the general stuff that we talk about, that I use you guys as sounding board for my clients, lovely as they go on their business journeys and they're, you know, dealing with things like flexibility, I know that's one of the things.
Speaker 1:And the work from home versus you know the work from the office thing and the liabilities on the employer side.
Speaker 3:I know you, Angela, you and I talk about that quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah, it's quite a topical one at the moment, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's such unknown territory and you can't rely on your own self for that.
Speaker 1:No. And one of the big things Susan and I say all the time and we tell our clients is you can't do it on your own. You shouldn't have to. You deserve that expert support when you need it, whether it's a financial support, like yourself or, you know, legal support or someone like Susan and I. You deserve that. You can't do it all yourself. You know you do need someone to lean on, if it is even just that sounding board.
Speaker 3:I love how you said that, because I just lit up when you said you deserve the support and you. Susan said something about worthiness and the fact that if we are running these businesses and they are a reflection of who we are and our ego and our pride, and even our insecurities and our imposter syndrome business is a pure reflection of who you are.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:But we've got to find a way to cut through it so that it grows beyond ourselves. So I'll go through all of those eight points, because I know I've kind of gone on different tangents, but there is rhyme to reason, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:The first one is to plan and set goals. So I think that goes without saying. We all know to do that, but I guess, find a structure that's going to make you do it. So, while we know it in theory, it's the practice, the practice, the practice. So, whether it's something like that business model canvas or something that's going to have you take your business, stick it up on a whiteboard and then start to unpack it and start to plan and set those goals. The second one is to identify and simplify any processes and procedures that have to happen, regardless of whether you do them or not. Like so, get it out of your head what you do in your business. And the third one is to document everything, because I have that whole. If you get hit by a bus, who's going to know what to do? Yeah, in every aspect of your life, particularly the financial planning. You and your person all the way through to. Well, how do you turn the coffee machine on? Yeah, in the office. Or how do you unlock your virtual office.
Speaker 1:And it makes that easier as you start to bring more people into your team. Everybody can do things the same way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean hire and train is the other one, but hire and train well and get the support and the advice to be able to do that well and get them to. You said something really cool. They either will come in to fulfill a job, so it's a time and a money thing, but if you can also get them to buy into your vision and see something in that for themselves, then I think you've got gold. I think so too. Yeah, oh, that's so cool. I'm going to take that.
Speaker 3:So that's to share your vision with your team. That's number five. Build the trust and accountability of yourself and also whoever you're working with and for. We talked about that in the whole context of you can be vulnerable and you can show all aspects of that, of who you are in business and to a certain extent, has to reflect the good, the bad and the ugly. Number seven was to grow and innovate the whole innovate thing. And innovation can be boring. It doesn't have to like set the world on fire, does it. And number eight is to build that tribe, but also your advisory tribal council, love it.
Speaker 1:That's great. I think that's wonderful. That's a really meaty, a lot of eight points, lots that we can grab from that. So I wonder what our listeners are thinking. What's one thing that stood out for you. Please let us know. We would love to know.
Speaker 2:So, as we're finishing up, sheila, what's the one thing that you've learned through your business journey, just one thing that you think you'd like to share with our listeners?
Speaker 3:my business is stronger for the relationships that I have in business and in life. So for me it's all about who I know, who I serve and how I can help great.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that, because we're all human, aren't we? Absolutely yeah, so I mean.
Speaker 3:I love that Because we're all human, aren't we? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I love collecting people. I do.
Speaker 1:I love it. I just love collecting people.
Speaker 3:And I'm an introvert so I have to force myself. Are you really I?
Speaker 1:would not have thought that. No, I am Definitely. You're definitely a people person, because you're someone who lights up a room and you like to talk. I'm nosy, that's why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not curious. I say curious, curious. Go with that Gossip, curious is a nice way to say it. Yeah, but if you can come from, curiosity.
Speaker 3:I reckon you'll always be able to get on the right side of a relationship or start a relationship, yeah. Or even have a conversation, or even have a conversation, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been such a lovely, wonderful chat to have you in the studio. It's been a pleasure today. So thank you for joining us. No worries, thank you, thanks, ladies, thanks. Thanks for listening to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR. Hit the subscribe button now to never miss an episode, and if you'd like to continue the conversation with us, you can find us over at astorhrcomau. See you in the next episode.
