Work Wonders
Back in late 2021, we decided that instead of chatting to each other about the challenges and triumphs of people management in small businesses, we should invite you to join the conversation. And the Work Wonders podcast was born! Managing people is serious business. We bring you all the latest, practical advice without the pain. The podcast is brought to you by Aster HR https://www.asterhr.com.au/ and your hosts are Angela Gauci and Susan Rochester
Work Wonders
S5 Ep 8: Special Guest - Lisa La Maitre
In this episode we spoke with Lisa LaMaitre.
She has developed, owned, and operated four businesses in four different industries, in the Canberra region, over the last 31 years.
Listen in as Lisa shares with us her journey and what she's learnt over that time in people management.
Lisa is a Business Connect Business Advisor with Enterprise Plus.
To access FREE support in your business through the Business Connect program, you can book a time with Lisa here
You can find the show notes for this episode here
Would you like to submit a question to the show? Let us know on our website or via LinkedIn.
Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR, where we simplify the human side of business.
Speaker 2:I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's episode and find out what you've been wondering about. It's interview time again, and today we're talking to Lisa LaMaitre. Lisa's owned several businesses and is now working as a business advisor. We're sure you'll enjoy this chat. Lisa talks to us about her experiences of running four different businesses over 31 years in business, and we get to hear what she's learnt in that time. So let's dive in. This is the Work Wonders podcast.
Speaker 1:Hi Susan, another interview today. Yes, always our favourite, I think they are. And today we have Lisa Lemaitre with us in the studio. Hi Lisa.
Speaker 3:Hey, ange and Susan, lovely to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming along Well, Lisa.
Speaker 1:I know you've got we've known each other for a little while, and I know you've got a really interesting backstory and lots to tell us. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what's brought you to where you are today?
Speaker 3:So I've been in business now last month for 31 years, so it's a really long period of time. With my husband we've had four different businesses in four different industries in the Canberra region. So we've had an IT consulting company, a health practice, an events business and a retail and rental store. But I first managed staff when I was only 18, so a very long time ago.
Speaker 3:I worked at Woolworths. I had a gap year between high school and uni and I was only there about six weeks and they decided quite quickly that I'd make a great service supervisor. So I quickly became the manager for the extended trade staff. So that was Thursday night, friday night and Saturday so I was 18, and my staff were all the 14, 15,. Friday night and Saturday so I was 18 and my staff were all the 14, 15, 16, 17 year olds. So that's where I started managing staff so a really long time ago, and I've had lots of experience.
Speaker 3:Now I do now from the business side of things. I now work full-time as a business advisor with a company in Queanbeyan called Enterprise Plus and we're contracted to deliver the New South Wales Business Connect program. So if anyone's a business in New South Wales I can potentially help them with their business through that program, but I also lecture, mentor and teach business as well. So I'm probably a little bit OTD on the amount of business stuff that I do, but I do enjoy it and I do enjoy sharing my knowledge with other people and helping them on their business journey.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Well, 31 years, I'm sure you've got a lot to share, Possibly hopefully, hopefully it's not full. I'm curious, eamon you talked about managing staff right from the beginning there and all the different industries that those businesses you and your husband have across different ones so diverse. Is that those businesses you and your husband have across different ones so diverse? Is there something that perhaps is you know a theme, something that's the same with managing people across all those differences?
Speaker 3:I think the main thing is that you have to care for people. I don't think treating them like they're family members is really the right terminology, but you know treating them in such a way that they know that they're valued and they know that you care about them and that you're willing to put them before whatever's happening in the business. I can remember sharing one of my massage therapists my health practice was a massage clinic and I had contractors working for me back in the day and quite a few of the staff would work at a few different clinics around town because they wanted to work in different areas or locations or whatever. And I remember sharing one of my team who was amazing with another practice in Canberra and then I happened to meet that practice owner at like a training day and she just came up to me and she started to complain about us and said how difficult she was to manage and I was just standing there like dumbfounded.
Speaker 3:Were you talking about the same person? Yeah, yeah, yeah, at the time the staff member had been going through some personal issues, but I'd been like it's okay, what do you need? How can I support?
Speaker 2:you.
Speaker 3:Where the other business owner was like oh, you're just an inconvenience and you're making my life difficult. You can probably imagine that that staff member stopped working for her and came to work for me for all the hours that she wanted to work for. I think that that's really important. I think we often forget or we get into our heads that we're opposing forces when we're employers and employees, and it doesn't help anybody. So that's probably the thing that I take from all the different people I've managed in all the different industries.
Speaker 2:I think we'd definitely agree with that wouldn't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're both nodding and smiling. Yeah, it's lovely to hear an employer say that. I think that's a lovely way to look at it, and we're all human, exactly. Well, look on the flip side of that, lisa. Is there one thing that's maybe been a bit hard for you to learn, or to get your head around, or whatever, in regard to your journey of becoming a leader of a team?
Speaker 3:Well, back in the day, particularly when I was starting to build my massage practice, it's nearly 20 years ago. Since I did that, I'd been in the industry for about seven years and then I moved into commercial premises 20 years ago this year and then I was in that space until 2020, until COVID, when I pivoted and obviously COVID made lots of people pivot and I'm just one of those people. But it was sort of in that, probably towards the end of the first 12 months, where I started to really be mindful and build the team and bring a really great team together. But back then there was really nobody to look at that. You know. There weren't podcasts. There was some books, you know there was really and also, too, it was all very male dominated. So I found that quite difficult to find someone to kind of mentor me or learn from or use as a role model or something. So I found that quite difficult.
Speaker 3:And I think the biggest problem we have in Australia and most people would probably agree is the complexity of HR laws and how difficult it is and even when you're trying to do the right thing and you type it into Google or onto one of the many platforms where you can go and that search engine just doesn't return the answer or return so many Exactly, and that obviously takes a lot of time away from business people. You know, having to be on the phone or chase down an answer or hire other people when your cash flow might not be great. Yeah, you know, I think there's few business owners out there that intentionally do the wrong thing. I think everyone wants to do the right thing, but it's so hard to know what the right thing is to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'd agree with that.
Speaker 1:Definitely, we were recording an episode. Just, you know around all the different changes in legislation and you know we would like to think for you all that it stopped last year and that was enough. But no, here's more Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think the policymakers forget that. They're used to reading and writing policy, so it's normal language for them and normal terminology and they know where they've hidden it. You know, being a business person, if my marketing messages are clear, customers don't know what I sell and so they don't know what they can buy from me or how I can help them. It's kind of the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even today, when we're looking at the closing loopholes legislation, I noticed that Fair Work's got a glossary on their page now.
Speaker 3:They do.
Speaker 2:So it's got these are the keywords that are used, and so it's got things like NES, you know, national Employment Standards, and other terms that not everybody would understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they use a lot of terminology or abbreviations and yeah, yeah, acronym Lisa. I wonder around employee and employees in your team and keeping them engaged and, you know, giving you what you're looking for in terms of outcomes and doing a really good job. What tips do you have in terms of keeping people doing the doing and keeping the team really vibrant and alive and going in the same direction?
Speaker 3:I think a lot of it actually comes back to when they're first onboarded my background in retail when I did work in retail. It's all about the processes and procedures and the manuals and I think that that is something that a lot of small businesses do overlook, particularly if there's someone that they've got all of the knowledge in their head and they know everything and they're mainly in the business with everyone else the business with everyone else. But if you get to the point where you want to grow the business and you want to step out and be doing other things, or you want to bring more team on or even step back from the business because you know a lot of business people have other. You know they have family obligations or they want to have children, or they want to go back and study or whatever they're trying to do, or they're setting up a second location, having those systems in place from when you first hire staff, I think makes a really big difference and it's that induction and onboarding and setting those things up so people know what you expect of them, they know how to do it, they know how to problem solve, they know what's acceptable if you're not there, that they can kind of do as a solution if something comes up that they're not used to, and to give them a level of independence.
Speaker 3:And then I think it's about just telling them, valuing them, getting them you know, getting great clients or customers in. You know, I think it's all I've always been about. You take care of your team, they turn up at work, they want to do a good job, your clients or customers have a great experience and they come back again, and it's just this loop. It's not necessarily difficult, it just loops around.
Speaker 1:We're always talking about having your team aligned with what your purpose is in your business and driving towards your vision and having some investment in what you're trying to achieve as a business.
Speaker 2:And, of course, that all requires being clear about that yourself and being able to communicate that to the team, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:It's hard at the moment too, when often we're managing remote teams. Oh yes, so often now teams are remote, or particularly in the businesses I've had when we had the retail business, we had casual staff. I'm not going to be in the business all the hours the business is open. Or when I had my massage clinic, I had people that would work weekends and I might not necessarily be in there or working on days that I'm off. So being able to communicate to all of your team all of the time the things that have changed team all of the time, the things that have changed, you know, probably relying more on technology now. So whether you've got like a Facebook group or WhatsApp group, telegram, email text, whatever it is, so everyone's on the same page all the time. That's really important too in business. Yeah, and I think that that leads to a lot of frustration in the team. If someone you know you're not getting that communication across to everybody. I think that can lead to a lot of issues too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sure can, but it's all time consuming too, isn't it, if you're the business owner and you just want to get the stuff done. So how do you address that when you're advising business owners and they're like, well, yeah, I could be doing all that, but I've got all this other stuff that needs to happen.
Speaker 3:Well, to be honest, a lot of the business owners that I have been working with are generally solopreneurs, but not a lot of them have staff or if they do have staff, they have really small teams. You know, often I think when the team is bigger, there's probably another person in the management role that's going to help them with that team management, but probably another person in the management role that's going to help them with that team management. But if you're trying to do it all yourself, it's really, really hard and I think managing staff takes a lot more time than people often allocate and give to it.
Speaker 3:I know that was something that I didn't do particularly well when I have had staff over the years. I can remember back in the day when I used to do everyone's super payments they used to take me all day and and only had like nine or ten people like it was insane, like it was a really time consuming making sure everything's right and making sure you haven't forgotten anyone and it's getting paid into the correct account and you haven't buggered it up like it's time consuming. And I think that's probably one of the things I'd say set time aside to do your admin or your staff management or whatever you need to do, and so often you say to people oh, I'll have them, you know we'll follow up with a meeting or have a team meeting or have a one-on-one, or you know someone's meant to be on probation and the follow through is not there because you don't schedule it as something important and it's easy to kind of slip over. So yeah, I'd say plan and schedule.
Speaker 2:So that sort of comes back to what you were talking about earlier, Lisa, about your processes and having systems for keeping on top of those things, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:It does. You know we talk about working in the business or on the business, and I think it's really easy to get sucked in and spend all your time in the business and not spend any time, or and definitely not enough time on the business, and I know that's definitely been one of my issues. Well, you know, at times I've been managing multiple businesses, like at one point. You know, we've had three businesses at different times. We've done some nutty things over the years. My husband and I. At one point between the two of us we had over 100 staff, so he was contracting into government. He had 70-odd staff there, a mix of contractors and full-time and that's in a government role. And then we had my massage clinic and we had our retail business. So I had like 10 in one location and 15 on the other or something and my husband had 70 plus. So, yeah, we had around 100 employees between the two of us. It was nothing.
Speaker 2:Do you enjoy listening to our interview episodes? As you can tell, angela and I really enjoy making them, so we're always on the lookout for interesting people we can interview. If you or someone you know would make a great guest for us, please get in touch. You can contact us through our website at astrohrcomau or via LinkedIn. We're always happy to have a chat about what we might be able to discuss. That can both inform our listeners and help you to reach a wider audience. Now let's get back to the episode to reach a wider audience.
Speaker 1:Now let's get back to the episode. Well, lisa, I know you mentioned in the beginning that you're working with Enterprise Plus as part of the Business Connect program and we'd love to hear more about that soon. But I know you've worked with a lot of small business owners and, like you say, a few that have smaller teams of staff. I'm curious are you seeing you know more recently things that are coming up for them that they're finding difficult in terms of people management?
Speaker 3:Because I'm either working with solo printers or they're people who are at that point where they're ready to to hire people for the first time and they want to get it right. And so they're looking at what you know, what they need to be setting up and what they need to be doing, so checking what type of business structure do they have Are they a sole trader, a partnership or a company and then helping to advise them on what insurances they might need or a mandatory, obviously, with workers' compensation insurance, and then also looking at making sure that you know that superannuation, single-touch payroll.
Speaker 1:Yes, all the compliance aspects, all the bits that need to happen, the way they need to happen.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious, Lisa, with all the different businesses that you've come into contact with and through your lecturing and mentoring, what's the most unusual business idea that someone's brought to you or has started a business in?
Speaker 3:Well, the most unusual one is one of my yeah, is a client. They have said they're in the process of setting a business up to change. I kind of don't want to really reveal it completely yet, because they're at. They're testing at the moment. They're testing what they're doing change. I kind of don't want to really reveal it completely yet. They're testing at the moment. They're testing what they're doing, but they're looking to set up a business that would disrupt the funeral industry. I'll leave it at that. Oh, my goodness, yes, it's something really different.
Speaker 1:Watch this space. Yeah, Lisa, is there something in the frame of thinking about people in business and teams? Is there something in the frame of thinking about people in business and teams? Is there something that you see is the same, no matter whether you're, you know, five or 10 big in your team, or whether you've got a hundred?
Speaker 3:I think it comes back to communication and then, if you're looking at that aspect of it, it's probably the values of the business and whether it's, you know, written on a piece of paper, on the website and it's not actually a living document or it's a living document. So, one of the things I did before COVID I think it was in 2018 or 2019, there's a business up in Cooma that's called Bird's Nest.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, we know Bird's Nest, oh nice.
Speaker 3:So, for those who may not know, bird's Nest is a very successful clothing brand up in Cooma. When I went up and visited them before COVID, they were the second largest employer of people in the Cooma region behind Snowy Hydra. So you can appreciate how much a high-growing small business has grown to achieve that. So their store they mainly do women's wear and I think they do some kids' wear as well and they sell online and they have a range of their own labels that they have made. But at their facility you can actually go it's back on now since COVID you can actually go up and do a tour and you get a tour of the shop and in the shop the shops all color-coded and there's also there'll be a pink section, a blue section, orange section, um, you can see everything that's there and if your size isn't there, you go to an ipad and you pull up the item like and it's not in your size, so you need you know your sizes on the shelf, so you dial up your size, but it will also tell you that it comes in red and black and horrible or whatever. Then you go oh, I might try. You know, I need something pink or whatever in my wardrobe and that goes through to the warehouse, which is in the building next door. Someone in the warehouse a runner will go get the things that you've just pulled up and actually put it into the change room for you. Oh my, so you just walk into the change room with your bag and nothing else. But when you do the tour you get to see that, you get to see the warehousing, you get to go through They've got a huge postage section and then you get to go up and you eventually get to have morning or afternoon tea, depending on what time of day it is, with Jane Kay who is the founder and she's really down to earth and she's really accessible and she'll answer any question.
Speaker 3:She was amazing and this was all free before COVID. So this amazing event but their values is actually called Birdsong and each letter of the word Birdsong has like a meaning behind it. It's painted in huge letters on the wall in the packing room and everyone there lives and breathes it, to the point where I get teary when I talk about it. Like if they're really busy, they've got so many postages to send out everybody, including Jane, will come down and pack. You've presumably had stuff sent to you. Yes, you get a handwritten note, don't you?
Speaker 1:You do. It's lovely, it's really thoughtful, it really makes all the difference.
Speaker 3:And everybody in there says how amazing it is.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's great, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so businesses need to live and breathe their value. That, I think, is, like you know, obviously really a foundation, like it's that induction, those processes, and then I think it's the living, your values, and then also communication. They would be the three kind of foundations. And then, if you're looking at staff, you can often teach technical skills. But even my husband says this because he builds teams in IT you can't teach a personality If that person's not the right fit for the team. It doesn't matter how amazing their skills are or how great their CV or their references, if they're not going to fit, they're not going to fit.
Speaker 1:That's it. Yeah, we often say that to a higher attitude, train for skill. Well, lisa, I know you'd have lots of expertise that you could share with us. We could sit here all day with you. But I wonder if I ask you to drill down to one thing that you would pass on in terms of advice to small business owners in their journey of being a people manager.
Speaker 3:I think part of it comes back to when you're conducting the interview Trust your intuition, like if that person, if there's something, just doesn't feel right, regardless of either how desperately you need the staff member because you're short-staffed, or someone's just left or someone's gone off on sick leave, or baby's arrived early or whatever it is. If they don't feel right and you can't put your finger on it, don't hire. Yeah, because I have overwritten that intuitive feel several times and it's just caused me more pain and more grief than the other way around, and I think you can take your time or you can obviously bring the person in and give them a trial shift and obviously pay them for that. So I think that's really important Give people a go and see what they're like and then choose.
Speaker 2:I think what you're saying there, Lisa, is so true I'm very passionate about that that, when it comes to recruitment, doing that slowly, you know, taking your time with that, and I think sometimes we just fall into that trap because we're desperate, you know, and you think well, this person's breathing, we'll put them on.
Speaker 1:You know Well, lisa. I wonder if you'd like to tell our listeners a little bit more about the Business Connect program. I know that it can help a lot of small business or any business owner really getting access to an expert like yourself for some support. So would you like to tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the main thing for people to know is that if they sign up for the Business Connect program, they can access a number of hours of free support through the program. For all of us who are advisors, we all have to have had our own businesses to be. That's one of the eligibility criteria when we apply. All have to have had our own businesses to be. That's one of the eligibility criteria when we apply for the job. So you are talking to and working with people that understand business and, yeah, you can work with any advisor in the state. So you can pick and choose. You can pick someone in your local area. You can pick someone on a particular problem that you might be having or a level of expertise or industry that they have.
Speaker 3:So a lot of my clients through the Business Connect program. I have a skew for people in the health industry because that's the majority of my business background. I've been in the industry this year for 27 years, so, yeah, but it's really great, like for me. I work with a really diverse range of people, regardless of where people are. If they're close by, we meet in person. I do a little bit of travel around my regional area so I do get out to see people, and then the rest of it is online and it can be at a time of day that suits them as well. So lots of flexibility, lots of great support, and then we will often know about other programs and things that may be available, or we have connections into different areas where we can find the information if we don't know the answer. So there's really nothing to lose by at least having one session and lots of people just don't know about the program.
Speaker 1:But yes, we're here to help and it's free, isn't it? It is free, yes, it is. That's fantastic. Why aren't we all using that? I know earlier on in my business journey.
Speaker 1:I went to the Business Connect provider in my local area and it was great just to have a sounding board, someone that you can throw I'm going to imagine it's the same for you, lisa Any question about business. Like you say, they're connected with the local area and different things that are available for business owners, whether it be a workshop or another program or someone that they could connect with, that could work with them. So, yeah, really invaluable, I think. Yeah, we'll be sure to put the link. If you would like to get in touch with Lisa and find out more about the Business Connect program, maybe even schedule a call with Lisa to work with her and get some advice from her, or just to know more about it in someone in your local area, we'll be sure to put that link and, yeah, go and check it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people have to remember they need to be residents of New South Wales or their business has to operate in New South Wales, ah great. So yeah, if people are in another state, I'm sorry I can't help you.
Speaker 2:Much as you would like to.
Speaker 1:Well, look, Lisa, it's been a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for your time with us, telling us about your journey and the great insights that you have for our listeners.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks, lisa. Lovely Thank you, ladies, it's been lovely to spend some time with you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you by Asta HR. Hit the subscribe button now to never miss an episode, and if you'd like to continue the conversation with us, you can find us over at astahrcomau. See you in the next episode.
